Plato

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Excellent edition of The Republic
Not the best
"republic" of the soul...aka: self help
Very good for an inexpensive translation
Great Translation

The Republic (Penguin Classics)
Plato , and Rachana Kamtekar
Manufacturer: Penguin Classics
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Paperback

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ASIN: 0140449140
Release Date: 2003-02-25

Book Description

Ostensibly a discussion of the nature of justice, The Republic presents Plato's vision of the ideal state, covering a wide range of topics: social, educational, psychological, moral, and philosophical. It also includes some of Plato's most important writing on the nature of reality and the theory of the "forms."

Translated with an Introduction by Desmond Lee

Customer Reviews:

Excellent edition of The Republic.......2007-05-06

Shorey's english rendering of the Greek in the Loeb edition is, in my opinion, excellent. More than anything, he captures the passion and fervor of Socrates beautifully, as his english rendering of the text is significantly more poetic than the vast majority of translations of The Republic. While, obviously, there are countless other editions and translations of The Republic, few of these do "justice" to the work qua literature as Shorey does. Shorey's translation, while perhaps a little less accessible to beginning readers than Alan Bloom's or WHD Rouse's, is not difficult to the point of inaccessibility, and its strengths in other regards are too significant to make it necessary to purchase anything other than the Loeb edition of The Republic.

It is my hope that this review is actually helpful to someone that is deciding which edition or translation of The Republic to buy. Far too many Amazon reviews are little more than opining on the ostensible subject matter of a book that the individual either did not read, or did not understand.

Not the best.......2007-01-10

This work is poorly written and difficult to understand. Philosophy books are dense in the first place, but this edition adds to any confusion and created lots of headaches. Furthermore, the book in other editions usually have line numbers so that people can compair notes across editions, the Dover book lacks these. I purchased a different book and found in depth analysis to be much easier.

"republic" of the soul...aka: self help.......2006-12-20

i have no comments on this particular translation of republic, as it is the only version i have read.

republic does not live up to its namesake. as "socrates" says (i think we all know that socrates is really just plato's play dough after book 1) at the close of book 9, the vision of kallipolis only "exists in theory" or perhaps there is a "model of it in heaven." the earlier differentiation between theory and practice make it clear that plato only intended to use kallipolis as a model for the human soul. therefore, the suggested policies of eugenics, infanticide, communal property, and holding women and children "in common" are probably not to be taken seriously. plato himself predicts the inevitable unraveling of such a city.

after reading republic for the second time, it occurred to me that it is little more than a self-help manual. reason should rule spirit and passion. "dabbling" weakens the character. understand the difference between necessity and luxury. shatter your illusions about what you think you know, etc etc. not that these are not important, but such ideas do not require the complex analogy of a totalitarian society. thus, i think republic is slightly overrated.

the most compelling portion of this book, in my opinion, was the critique of the various constitutions. while the critiques of oligarchy, tyranny, timocracy and democracy map on nicely to the individual soul, they also make logical sense independently. while convention has led us to disregard the former 3 constitutions, democracy is often placed on a pedestal as the most ideal form of government. plato challenges this notion and succeeds with vigor in tearing down this pedestal. democracy, even in its representative form, is not much more than tyranny of the majority. we can witness democracy's inherent flaws today in the U.S., on issues such as abortion and gay marriage. this, in my opinion, is the only significant thing republic has to offer to the modern political theorist.

Very good for an inexpensive translation.......2006-11-10

I'm wrapping up a semester of teaching this translation of Republic, and I've had few complaints. Waterfield's editorial hand is visible, but that in itself, in the hands of a competent teacher, leads to good discussions above and beyond Plato's ideas.

With regards to Plato's masterwork, there's no good place to start save reading it for oneself. Plato is dead wrong in places (with regards to poetry and marriage just to get rolling), but his genius is that he's wrong as an idealist philosopher, encouraging readers to assert and refine their own ideals as counter-arguments. In other words, in order to refute Plato, one must out-Plato Plato.

Deconstruction is fine for deconstructionists, but a good discussion of this juggernaut of ancient thought is the life for me.

Great Translation.......2006-11-10

Excellent...very inexpensive. Great translation. If you need a copy of the Republic, GET THIS.

The Collected Dialogues of Plato: Including the Letters (Bollingen Series LXXI)

Average customer rating:

"Discovering things that might also be remembered". Good Book
This is the wrong collection to buy.
it's better than...
I Hate Plato
The Collected Dialogues of Plato

The Collected Dialogues of Plato: Including the Letters (Bollingen Series LXXI)
Plato
Manufacturer: Princeton University Press
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Hardcover

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ASIN: 0691097186

Book Description

All the writings of Plato generally considered to be authentic are here presented in the only complete one-volume Plato available in English. The editors set out to choose the contents of this collected edition from the work of the best British and American translators of the last 100 years, ranging from Jowett (1871) to scholars of the present day. The volume contains prefatory notes to each dialogue, by Edith Hamilton; an introductory essay on Plato's philosophy and writings, by Huntington Cairns; and a comprehensive index which seeks, by means of cross references, to assist the reader with the philosophical vocabulary of the different translators.</p>

Customer Reviews:

"Discovering things that might also be remembered". Good Book.......2007-05-13

Plato and Socrates Dialogues stand on their own and in a short review attempt to say that they are "good or not worth it" seems a little shallow.

The chapter Gorgias it reaches out and offers some direction. It says "This is the truth of the matter, as you will acknowledge if you abandon philosophy and move on to more important things is perhaps that philosophy is no doubt a delightful thing, Socrates, as long as one is exposed to it in moderation at the appropriate time in life. But if one spends more time with it than he should, it's his undoing.

So maybe it is just a delightful book if you like Plato and Socrates. It is nice to have this all in one book. I recommend it.

Reading all of the dialogues develops thoughts on specific themes best. It helps to have them in this format. I especially like the to follow the question of whether knowledge is discovered or remembered, whether justice is absolute or relative, whether virtue can be taught, and of course a great deal more in these chapters.

It brings together enough to find out what Plato's epistemology is and how his ethics relates to his metaphysical theory. Lots more.

I found the chapter overviews useful. It pointed the way that the chapters would take and suggested some core issues but didn't pretend to have been answers than the chapters themselves did.

A book like this is a better way to own and read "The Collected Dialogues"

This is the wrong collection to buy........2006-05-22

You could do worse than to buy this collection -- after all, there are translations of the complete works of Plato into English that date to the 18th century. But you could sure do a whole lot better.

By and large -- and with the exception, perhaps, of what is now the standard translation of Laws -- modern translations of Plato are more evenhanded, better researched, and more frank than old ones. And this edition, unfortunately, has some very old ones indeed, like those of Jowett. Moreover, it includes -- according to no particular logic -- a few works many consider spurious, while omitting others whose status is in debate, and it places the dialogues in an order that is not easy to justify.

The edition to buy, if you want a complete Plato without the benefit of the Greek text (if you want the Greek, buy the Loeb, and know that the facing-pages English translations aren't much worse than the ones offered here!), is the one edited by Cooper and published by Hackett. This one will suffice -- but that one is excellent. Few instructors will insist that you buy some edition in particular, and fewer still will insist that you buy this edition -- so don't, buy that one.

it's better than..........2004-09-03

As if after reading Plotinus, Augustine and all those Arabian philosophers with those names one can never recall, we needed another commentary on the works of Plato. Cela va de soi (it goes without saying), Plato has been remembered for a reason. Although, there are some philosophers who would consider Plato a mistake (Quine for example, if I remember rightly, refused to teach a class on Plato), I think it would be absurd not to consider Plato at all. There are some dialogues in this book (such as the Timaeus) that will make you yawn, others, like Gorgias, the Symposium and the Laws will make you wide-awake in wonder. But most importantly, these dialogues will introduce you to Socrates. Although, there is no way to ascertain whether it was Plato or Socrates speaking in these dialogues, most assume that in The Apology, The Crito and a few of Plato's other early dialouges, one gets a glimpse of the real Socrates. Socrates, in Plato's (and also Xenophanes) dialouges is a good man, one who will inspire you. He'll teach you the advantages of being open-minded, of realizing human ignorance, and above all, self-knowledge ('know thyself', 'the unexamined life is a life not worth living'). Which, in my opinion, makes Plato worth reading. I would encourage you to read these dialogues and take what you can, and then go on to Aristotle.

Also recommended: Toilet: The Novel, by Michael Szymczyk. The Oxford Companion to Philosophy. The Complete Works of Aristotle. Early Greek Philosophy by Jonathan Barnes. Lives of Eminent Philosophers by Diogenes Laertius.

I Hate Plato.......2002-08-14

Yes, I think Plato's philosophy is one of the most despicable things unleashed on this Earth. His idea that this world we live in is only semi-real has lead to most of the bad philosphy in recorded history. Only a few philosphers have escaped from under his glare. It's most ironic that one of those is his most famous student: Aristotle.
However, as a lover of knowledge and a student of philosophy, I realize the tremendous debt owed to Plato. First, he understood how imprtant it was to record his ideas. Socrates did not and for this the world is almost assuredly the worst for it. Secondly, he was and absolutely amazing writer. His ability to put his ideas forth in a lucid manner that anyone can uderstand is amazing. Thirdly, he was the first philosopher who devised a full system of knowledge. He wrote on metaphysics, epistemology, ethics, politics and aesthetics.
It is further unfortunate that this text has become the standard by which philosphy students must study Plato. The text is rigid, and as an earlier reviewer noted, Hamilton's intros suck. It is ridiculous to think of her as a serious Platonic scholar. But the Cooper text is much harder to come by, and the Hamilton is required in most courses on Plato. If you have the means, secure yourself a copy of both.

The Collected Dialogues of Plato.......2002-03-02

I have read several of the translations of Plato's dialogues by different scholars... this is the best one that I have come across. Granted Ms. Hamilton's introductions are a little sparce, but that leaves the reader to form a better opinion... not one jaded. This edition is one of the most complete volumes available... where Letters, Menexenus, Lesser Hippias and Ion are found with a rather extensive index and the standard numbering lines from the Greek text.

We have meaningful translations, translations of what Plato was trying to say in todays English language... I know that over time languages grow and evolve but here we read the dialogues like a short story full of life and viable.

The translations in this volume are from: Lane Cooper, F.M. Cornford, W.K.C. Guthrie, R. Hackforth, Michael Joyce, Benjamin Jowett, L.A. Post, W.H.D. Rouse, Paul Shorey, J.B.Skemp, A.E. Taylor Hugh Tredennick, W.D. Woodhead, and J. Wright.

For being a one volume set, this is about as complete as it gets.

Plato and a Platypus Walk into a Bar: Understanding Philosophy Through Jokes
Average customer rating:

A Couple Philosophic Comedians Wrote a Book...

HELLO! It's philosophy and JOKES.

Even Schopenhhauer Would Chuckle Reading This Book

A few good jokes, but.....

Give the gift of knowledge.

Plato and a Platypus Walk into a Bar: Understanding Philosophy Through Jokes
Thomas Cathcart , and Daniel Klein
Manufacturer: Abrams Image
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Hardcover

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ASIN: 081091493X

Book Description

Here's a lively, hilarious, not-so-reverent crash course through the great philosophical traditions, schools, concepts, and thinkers. It's Philosophy 101 for everyone who knows not to take all this heavy stuff too seriously. Some of the Big Ideas are Existentialism (what do Hegel and Bette Midler have in common?), Philosophy of Language (how to express what it's like being stranded on a desert island with Halle Berry), Feminist Philosophy (why, in the end, a man is always a man), and much more. Finally—it all makes sense!<BR><BR>“I laughed, I learned, I loved it!” Roy Blount Jr.

Customer Reviews:

A Couple Philosophic Comedians Wrote a Book..........2007-06-22

Americans pretty much ignore philosophy. The subject matter is wordy and impractical. The people who talk about it are pompous, self-absorbed nerds. Intra-philosophical differences are laughed at and that's not because they're funny.

If you're a self-satisfied philosopher, perhaps you'd like to circulate your view. This little book is a sort of advertisement for the subject. The authors have collected jokes that vaguely illustrate the various schools of philosophy. Some are quite tart and leave you with that little combination of surprise and insight. I discovered at least a half-dozen that bear re-telling, though I will not remember if they demonstrate a linguistic or existential principle. Good work guys.

HELLO! It's philosophy and JOKES........2007-06-21

I feared that this would be a bunch of groan-worthy puns tangentially linked to misunderstandings of philosophy. I was so wrong. I also worried that it was written by a couple of geeks. These guys really are geeks, but seem like the kind you wouldn't mind meeting for a beer.

The jokes are funny. They also illustrate the philosophical concepts quite well. I see that other reviewers wanted more elaborations on the philosophy. No, you're not going to get the finer distinctions of the maxims that reflect Kant's categorical imperative. You won't be quoting Zarathustra at the end, either. But you will definitely laugh and you might, just might, find yourself dusting off your old copy of "The Nicomachean Ethics," or "Madness and Civilization." What other book can do so much?

Even Schopenhhauer Would Chuckle Reading This Book.......2007-06-19

What an amazing achievement. A book about Philosophy that can be enjoyed by anyone from the curious layman to that dour professor who taught you that course on Phenomenology and Existentialism. The authors have the knack of getting to the core of a philosophical issue in just a crystal clear sentence or two. Then they make their point with a relevant joke. No drab and dry examples here; just jokes that rarely are clinkers.

Speaking of clinkers, the authors make sport of Hobbes' famous line regarding the human condition, "(life being..) solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short. It's all those bad things, and then Hobbes complains because it's too short? The authors liken this to the lady at a resort who complained that "the food was cold, undercooked, repulsive....and the servings are too small."

At one point in the book there is a discussion of the linguistic concept of language fuzziness. How precise should language be? Should it be mathematically precise or loose enough for some wiggle room? There then follows this funny example of problems encountered in language that is a bit too fuzzy.

"A 911 dispatcher receives a panicky call from a hunter. `I've just come across a bloodstained body in the woods. It's a man and I think he is dead! What should I do?' The dispatcher calmly replies, `It's going to be all right, sir. Just follow my instructions. The first thing is to put the phone down and make sure he is dead.' There's a silence on the phone followed by the sound of a gunshot. The man's voice returns, `Okay, what do I do next?'"

You're a philosophical novice? This book is for you. You are a philosophical drudge who takes Kant's Critique of Pure Reason to the beach with you? This book is for you. I've been seriously burned in the past by so called funny books written about serious subjects. This book is refreshingly different. Come on now, wouldn't it be fun to read this on your commuter train, and laugh so hard that your fellow travelers ask you what's so funny, and you can reply that you just read the funniest joke about Kant's categorical imperative? You'd either get looks of admiration, or get mugged. But that's life.

A few good jokes, but............2007-06-19

The book has a few good jokes and does a decent job of tracing the history of philosophy. But many of the jokes are crude and repetitive, and much of the philosophic history is weak and sketchy, e.g. the discussion of existentialism is lacking in the elaboration of the concepts of freedom/choice which are essential to this type of thought. Overall, I was disappointed. Despite a few good jokes, I recommend that you find your humor elsewhere and your philosophy in a more competent analysis.

Give the gift of knowledge........2007-06-19

I heard about this book on Whaddya Know and decided it'd be a perfect Father's Day gift. Well, I decided to poke through before giving it to my dad and ending up reading it all myself before I gave it to him. Having just taken two semesters of philosophy I really wish I book had been around before hand. It's not only entertaining but really helps illustrate some of the more important philosophical concepts.

Average customer rating:

a translation of substance and a great edition
A note on the unending work of Political Philosophy: Republic, Statesman, Laws
The First Communist Outlines His Program
Good edition of a seminal work of political and ethical philosophy
There are better translations...

The Republic of Plato
Plato
Manufacturer: Basic Books
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Paperback

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ASIN: 0465069347

Book Description

Long regarded as the most accurate rendering of Plato's Republic that has yet been published, this widely acclaimed work is the first strictly literal translation of a timeless classic. This second edition includes a new introduction by Professor Bloom, whose careful translation and interpretation of The Republic was first published in 1968. In addition to the correct text itself there is also a rich and valuable essay--as well as indexes and a glossary of terms--which will better enable the reader to approach the heart of Plato's intention.

Customer Reviews:

a translation of substance and a great edition.......2007-06-17

i add my praise of bloom's *translation*, which avoids many of the historical pitfalls in rendering plato's language and concepts and, on the whole, is idiomatic, consistent and accurate. the few criticisms of the translation posted here seem to me to turn on bloom's educational background, which is a silly cavil, or on his translation, which as far as i can tell is objectionable only to readers lacking greek themselves.

i especially praise bloom's *edition*, which provides excellent endnotes to some of the disputed passages and, in particular, clarifies the meaning of key greek words (eidos, doxa, nomos, arete, politeia, etc.) and the translation difficulties the words create. i cite for example his gloss on greek "thymos" (passion) which bloom represents as "the seat of anger" (a common straussian misconception) but consistently translates as "spirit" or "spiritedness", which is about as accurate as english can render its complex meaning. the point is that without this kind of annotation the reader is hostage to the translator's whims. bloom discloses his choices at every turn, so that the reader is aware of the translator's challenge, can approve or evaluate his translation choices, and has the context for further exploration of plato's ideas if that seems fruitful. in this respect, the endnotes are at least as stimulating as the text.

the edition also includes a very useful index to proper names and a separate index to subjects (really, a synoptic index of concepts such as "virtue" or "justice"), which allows the reader to retrace page by page the steps in the argument that hinge on particular words (in the original greek) or specific philosophical ideas. of course the edition uses the berlin marginal numbering which is the standard method to cite passages in plato, but the indices are conveniently keyed to pages or endnote numbers.

finally, bloom's apparently controversial interpretative essay does presume a careful and skeptical reader. while clearly tendentious in certain respects it is also an excellent gloss on the outline and argument of the dialog; a kind of cliff's notes for the mature reader. i see this essay as a culmination in the invitation -- through the text, the notes to the text, the inquiry through the indices, and the questions all these raise -- to encounter the book in a spirit of self inquiry and self education. the book is a fine example of "paideia".

my disappointments are with the typeface, which is a bit small and stodgy, with the paper (too rough and heavy), and with the binding: as with many basic books paperbacks, the glue will split and shed pages if the book is used too familiarly.

materials aside: for a modern american reader with little knowledge of classical greek or of the three centuries of philological and literary scholarship laid over it, this is far and away the best english translation and nonscholarly edition for getting back at least part of the original meaning of plato's supreme political tract, with all the tools necessary for a lifetime of self study.

A note on the unending work of Political Philosophy: Republic, Statesman, Laws.......2007-03-31

A great source of perplexity to students beginning to study Plato's political philosophy is the question of how the three political dialogues -Republic, Statesman, Laws- hang together. In this brief note I would like to touch on how these three dialogues might be related. At first blush it might seem they have very little in common. Indeed, they do not even share a common primary speaker! The Republic has Socrates, the Statesman has the stranger from Elea, and the Laws has an Athenian Stranger as the primary speaker. We tend to think of the Republic as a revolutionary utopianism, the Statesman as a somewhat aloof, and occasionally absurd, philosophical description of politics, and the 'Laws' as a conservative paean to the traditional virtues. But is there a way of showing that these three dialogues (and the three speakers) do not merely contradict each other but rather correct each other thanks to Plato's allowing each dialogue to represent only a partial truth that we readers must put together with the others in order to see the whole Plato was aiming at? Let's start at the beginning:

Political philosophy truly begins with Plato. There is a crisis in Athens, various sophists and rhetoricians are spreading disrespect for the traditional gods and morality of Athens. In this manner, Athens reminds us of modernity and its fundamental disbelief in traditional values. In 'The Republic' Plato has Socrates (remember, Socrates is only another character in Plato's dialogues, and for all interpretive intents and purposes he is nothing more; the Platonic dialogues are not to be confused with biography) silence the rhetor Thrasymachus by demonstrating the chaos that ensues if everyone does as he pleases. That is, Thrasymachus learns from Clitophon and Polemarchus parroting his points (Book I) the consequences of his sophistry of power. The consequence being that rhetors and sophists will no longer be necessary (or employed) if everyone comes to think exactly as Thrasymachus does... Socrates then demonstrates to Thrasymachus that seductive rhetoric (and, of course, seductive rhetors) will have a role to play in the newly made Platonic Republic. Socrates, with his city built in speech, successfully seduces Glaucon, his brother, and the rest to accept a suitably modified 'city of pigs' - that is, a city in which all mind their own business. The 'city of pigs' (Book II, 372d), of course, is how Glaucon describes the moderate city that the philosopher Socrates is perfectly content to live in. The rest of the Republic, as I said, is little more than Socrates skillful seduction of Glaucon and the rest to accept a modified version of this moderate city. That is, they are to come to accept a city in which everyone minds his own business and has only one job, which is what Socrates' definition of justice demands. But is Socrates' moderate city, once modified, still moderate?

Another question that each of us must decide as we read this text; does Plato's Socrates deceive? - Oh my! At 389b-d Socrates tells us that the ruler of the City, and only he, may lie. Now, are Philosophers rulers? But the whole point of the Republic is to show that there can be no peace or justice until philosophers do indeed rule! Thus we are led to suspect that it is only the Philosopher-King who may tell 'noble lies'. But before philosophy actually rules must it not also tell lies to non-philosophers in oder to achieve the crown? Now, note that near the beginning of Book I (331e) Socrates asks if it is just to lie to the insane. But certainly, I hear many of you objecting, Socrates cannot possibly mean this of the splendid exceptional young men presently (i.e., in this dialogue) gathered around him. Indeed, later at 459c-d, Socrates seems to argue that the lying ruler is only a type of physician. Perhaps philosophical ruling is necessary only because of the sickness in the souls of non-philosophers? What!?! ...It really is quite remarkable how often the insane do not even know they are insane! Now, is the 'treatment' that the philosopher-physician Socrates demonstrates in this dialogue always and everywhere effective? No, for instance, there is nothing that either converts or silences Callicles in the 'Gorgias'. Thus Socrates, and his utopian revolution, fails to bring peace to Athens. (True, at the end of Plato's Symposium 'peace' finally reigns, but everyone has been seduced by words and sedated by drink.) Indeed, the historical Socrates is in fact understood by Athens to be part of the problem, and not a solution. Thus the later Plato elects to modify (or correct) the famous, garrulous Socrates with the silent, unknown Eleatic Stranger.

In Plato's 'Sophist' and 'Statesman' the taciturn Eleatic Stranger is forced to speak. Philosophy must battle Sophists and Statesmen over what can be said and what can be done. The Stranger demonstrates (i.e., acts out, not explains) the difficulty of seeing (and showing) the differences between Sophist, Statesman and Philosopher. Also, note that in the 'Sophist' he shows us how difficult it is to `know' as opposed to (and distinct from) making while in the Statesman he shows the impossibility of mixing (or weaving) flawed types of people into an unflawed whole. Since the weaving of flawed types into a supposedly 'unflawed' whole is an example of making the resulting 'unflawed whole' cannot, in fact, be an example of knowledge. This means that the Eleatic Stranger could not bring philosophy to the City any more than Socrates could. Thus no matter who rules the City Socrates is going to die... Also, always keep in mind that the dramatic date of the action of Sophist/Statesman coincides with the beginning of Socrates trial. Thus the Statesman ends with the Eleatic Stranger leaving the City behind and, in effect, saying to Socrates that there is nothing in the city, for us, but death. I would be remiss if I did not mention that in the 'Statesman', a rather short Platonic dialogue, there are more confusions, errors and repetitions than in any other dialogue that I am aware of. This is due to the fact that the Eleatic Stranger, unlike Socrates, views the political from the viewpoint of theoretical philosophy. From this viewpoint the political is madness itself! But does the Eleatic Stranger also tell 'noble lies'? In a sense yes, at 242b (in the Sophist) the Eleatic Stranger tells Theaetetus that everything he (i.e., the Eleatic Stranger) says is said out of regard for Theaetetus. But note that these philosophically 'noble' lies that the Eleatic Stranger is 'forced' to tell are not really said for the sake of the City; they are only necessitated by theory and pedagogy. The Eleatic Stranger doesn't seem to have the slightest interest in changing the City.

Now, be that as it may, we wonder what becomes of those that must continue to live in a world that condemns a Socrates to death? Plato rejects both the irresponsible silence of the Eleatic Stranger and the responsible silence that results from Socrates' murder by Athens. In 'The Laws' Plato has the Athenian Stranger (Socrates returned from the dead, according to Aristotle) teach the sovereignty of Nomos (law), while in Plato's 'Timaeus' Plato has Timaeus spins fabulous myths about creation and the God to enchant everyone. Thus Plato strove to save philosophy from the city and the city from philosophy by allowing philosophy to be seen revering what the city reveres - that is, laws and myths. But do note that the Laws dialogue ends with the concoction of the so-called 'Nocturnal Council' which is to have power to revise all the Laws (keep in mind that this must also mean laws regarding the gods) in the city whenever necessary. It is in this manner that the 'noble lies' philosophy tells are embodied in an institution hidden within the city itself. Thus the philosophical 'conservatism' of the aged Plato is in reality the founding document of the permanent revolution of Western Philosophy. Or, to put all this yet another way, the utopian revolution that was loudly proclaimed in the Republic has been replaced, in the Laws, by the machinations of the nocturnal council, which operates behind everyones back. Thus the 'philosophical conservatism' in the 'Laws', that has been so-often denounced by modern scholars, is in reality a call, but a call only made to to genuine philosophers, to permanent revolution!

There are those among us who are coming to believe that the 'History of Philosophy' is, in reality, nothing but the record of the maneuvers of our philosophical 'nocturnal council'. But this would be how the Platonic Revolution became perpetual philosophical reform; there is simply no end to it...

The First Communist Outlines His Program.......2007-03-09

This book has to be read, as a defense, especially by freedom loving people, because Plato outlines his "ideal" society. Think Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, today's Iran, the Inquisition, and today's American "Nanny/Theraputic State" all rolled into one mega dictatorship, with of course, the omnipotent and authoritarian "philosopher-king" in charge. Now, philosophy is a science crucially needed today, but it has to be the right philosophy. Sadly, we live in a Platonic age and the continuting disintegration of America into a fascist/religious nightmare. Let's hope the pendulum is swinging toward the antidote: Aristotle's "pursuit of happiness". Obviously, the [so far] lone commentor hasn't a clue.

Good edition of a seminal work of political and ethical philosophy.......2007-01-08

I don't feel too much need to discuss the subject of The Republic, given its status as one of the most famous works in the history of philosophy, but I should say that the topics that it addresses are as relevant today as it was two thousand years ago. The great question of justice, which Plato takes as his topic in the Republic, is still one that we debate about today, and Plato's political philosophy is important to read even for the staunchest democrat as another perspective on our overglorified system of government.
The Bloom translation offered here holds up very well - it is the most accurate translation of the Republic that I am aware of, and though this does make it convoluted at points it gives the English reader a better sense of what Plato meant without ever getting too difficult (although even the most dedicated readers may have to skip the famously difficult section on the 'nuptial number'). This handsome edition is well worth having, to read and reread.

There are better translations..........2006-12-28

I have taken a look at all the main translations out there and have to strongly disagree with the other reviews here that Bloom does the most faithful or "best" translation.

I have a few reasons to be suspicious about Bloom's work here:

1. As a student of Strauss, Bloom learnt well the power of esotericism. That means to me he is both aware of (and possibly) uses esotericism as part of the translation. I didn't like the idea of ideologues such as the Straussians having anything to do with a text that is already pregnant with esoteric meaning. Read Strauss if you wish (I did) to develop one's understanding of The Republic but read another translation as one's reference. It will help you come to your own conclusions about this towering and radical work of philosophy.

2. I've applied a very quick litmus test of "safe" translations by going straight to 362a of the text to determine whether the translator has used the word "crucified", "crucify" or similar when referring to the punishment meted out to the just man. Some texts go further by "clarifying" that the translation should "literally" read 'impale' and from my point of view, use of the concept of crucifixion is way too close to what is to my mind a completely unnecessary and misleading Christianisation of the text. Interestingly, Bloom is credited with removing the long standing tradition of Christian-Platonic readings via the Straussian re-interpretation of Plato. However this version of The Republic by Bloom repeats this very significant mistranslation and puts into doubt the whole project undertaken by him.

Similarly, I rejected the penguin/Jowett versions that come from this same tradition.

So, what are my recommendations? I have to go with Grube/Reeve versions. They are atheistic/pantheistic, uncoloured but still poetic and powerful translations. One of Reeve's versions comes with the dialogue broken up against each character to assist with reading [...] but either version is excellent and I strongly recommend them over Bloom's version.

The Cambridge Companion to Plato (Cambridge Companions to Philosophy)

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Your time and money are better spent elsewhere
A Very Good Introduction to Plato
A comprehensive introduction to Plato

The Cambridge Companion to Plato (Cambridge Companions to Philosophy)

Manufacturer: Cambridge University Press
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Binding: Paperback

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ASIN: 0521436109

Book Description

Plato stands as the fount of our philosophical tradition, being the first Western thinker to produce a body of writing that touches upon a wide range of topics still discussed by philosophers today. In a sense he invented philosophy as a distinct subject, for although many of these topics were discussed by his intellectual predecessors and contemporaries, he was the first to bring them together by giving them a unitary treatment. This volume contains fourteen new essays discussing Plato's views about knowledge, reality, mathematics, politics, ethics, love, poetry, and religion. There are also analyses of the intellectual and social background of his thought, the development of his philosophy throughout his career, the range of alternative approaches to his work, and the stylometry of his writing.

Customer Reviews:

Very Good.......2006-03-02

This is a very good overview of Plato's philosophy. I would recommend this volume for those that want to learn of his philosophy without reading that acual works.

(no title).......2005-08-03

I cannot recommend this volume highly enough. It's a collection of essays, all (bar one) especially written for this volume, each of them authored by a leading scholar on the respective dialogue or topic. Especially the pieces by Frede and Fine constitute path-breaking, durable contributions to Plato scholarship; each of them would merit the purchase by itself. Between them, Frede and Fine also introduce the reader to two rather different approaches to interpreting Plato, and at once present these approaches at their very best.

Some essays are naturally harder than others, ranging from the instantly accessible to the rather technical. This is as it should be: a reader's companion to Plato's dialogues which themselves vary from the easy to the 'forbidding'. And a book that won't become redundant as your own competence with the dialogues grows (who ever said it won't?).

To conclude: these pieces range from the good to the outstanding, none of them is harder than it should be, and they display considerable diversity in methodology.

PS People interested in the 'non-doctrinal' approach to reading Plato may profitably consult Ferrari's piece at http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/bmcr/2000/2000-11-10.html, and the "Introduction" (pt.III-IV) in John Cooper, "Plato: Complete Works" (Hackett 1997).

Your time and money are better spent elsewhere.......2001-08-10

Plato is perhaps the most approachable of the major philosophers. His work is largely presented in short dialogues. Their brevity allow them to be read in a single sitting, and their characterizations, humor, and stories engage even the reader new to philosophy.

Given this, it may surprise those unfamiliar with Plato to learn that the interpretation of him has always been the subject of hot dispute - perhaps only Nietzsche among philosophers has inspired more controversy.

Why is this? Why is Plato so easy to read and yet so difficult?

Five problems are worth calling out:

(1) Dramatic presentation: All of Plato's published works are presented as dialogues between characters - Plato himself is never a character. Thus, any interpretation must have some mapping (implicit or explicit) between the characters' views and Plato's views, as well as how the dramatic structure (setting, characters, story) as a whole presents Plato's views.

(2) Irony: The main speaker in most of Plato's dialogues is Socrates, a character who often speaks ironically. Other characters can be read as sometimes being ironical as well (such as The Athenian in the dialogue "Laws"). Any interpretation must determine when a character is speaking ironically and when seriously.

(3) Stories/Myths: Characters in Plato's dialogues often tell stories whose subject matter is mythological - they concern Gods and Goddesses, the afterlife, and other subject matter beyond ordinary human experience. Any interpretation that deals with them must determine how they are to be read.

(4) The Platonic Lie: In "The Republic", Plato endorses (or seems to endorse) lying as a means of instilling beneficial beliefs in audiences that are unable to acquire philosophical knowledge. A beneficial belief is one that is not true in its substance, but which, if believed, will tend to the same end as would the corresponding knowledge. If we accept that this is Plato's view, then interpretations must consider whether views expressed in the dialogues are themselves Platonic Lies, and not real representations of Plato's thought.

(5) Historical Background: Plato lived in a time and place different from our own, whose language, customs, intellectual background, and attitudes are not ours. This is a much bigger problem than just unfamiliar names - it is the unconscious attitudes we absorb from our culture (and he from his) of which we are not necessarily even consciously aware. Different interpreters do not read these influences the same way (there is no book we can all go to called "How We Thought About Things", authored by "The Ancient Greeks").

With regard to these issues, the dominant view in "A Cambridge Companion to Plato" is something I would call Platonic Fundamentalism: "Socrates says what Plato means, and he means what he says" (this is after the Christian Fundamentalist credo: "The Bible says what it means and it means what it says").

A difficulty with this view is that it leaves Plato contradicting himself an awful lot. The general solution presented here is the evolving-Plato theory - that the dialogues were written over a long period of time and that the contradictions represent real changes in Plato's views. The collection thus abounds in references to Plato's "early dialogues" or "middle dialogues" or "late dialogues".

Now, there are certainly Plato scholars, past and present, who do not accept this particular interpretive framework, but their views, if raised at all, are raised only so that they may be dismissed (sometimes in the same sentence). Those looking for substantial engagement on the problems of Platonic interpretation must look elsewhere.

So, given that the book does not aim to present the scholarly debate on interpreting Plato, it is fair to ask: what does it aim to do? This is an excellent question, but I could not find the answer to it in the book itself.

If it were for the beginning reader, I would think it would focus on the order of reading, and on prepping the reader with background info for each dialogue so as to make reading it more rewarding. But it doesn't do anything like that.

If it were for the intermediate reader, I would think it would focus on illuminating doubtful passages or drawing connecting webs across disparate ones. But it doesn't do that either.

If it were for the advanced reader, I would think it would focus on the debates in the secondary literature, and that it would be used by peers to address peers on controversies. But it doesn't do that either.

So, when it comes to the ultimate question of whether I should recommend the book or not, I just can't think of anyone to whom I would recommend it.

Finally, to take another tack at how worthwhile a book is: the basic challenge any work of secondary literature must face is whether it is more profitable to read it, or to give the primary literature another reading instead.

The only work in the collection that I would say clearly passes that test is Constance Meinwald's essay on "Parmenides" (for those who don't know, "Parmenides" is by far the most formidable work in the Platonic corpus - the first half works to demolish the theory of Forms that we might otherwise hold to be Plato's view, and the second half defies the ability of most readers to make any sense of at all). Even here, however, if you want to read Meinwald's theories on "Parmenides" (and they are worth reading), you would do better to get her book "Plato's Parmenides" than to read the essay excerpted from that book included here.

A Very Good Introduction to Plato.......2001-01-07

The Cambridge Companion to Plato is an extrememly good primer of Plato's philosophy. The book begins with a complete overview of Plato's philosophy and how it progressed through time. This overview is particularly helpful for those who have never studied Plato before and essential for those who use this book, as I did, as their first exposure to the study of philosophy.

Like all books in the Cambridge series, the Companion to Plato consists of a number of essays written by preminent scholars. These essays explain and evaluate various aspects of Plato's philosophy, from "the defense of justice in Plato's Republic" to "mathematical method and philosophical truth."

Like any philosophy textbook, The Cambridge Companion to Plato can, at times, be dense. I won't recommend it for everbody; a hearty interest in learning philosophy is definately required. However, I've found it to be one of the finest introductions to Plato in his philosophy. It provides a good foundation for actual reading of Plato's texts, which is the next logical step beyond this book. It is also perfect for those who wish to gain a working understanding of Plato's view of the world but, like me, simply do not have the patience to garner it from Plato's own work.

A comprehensive introduction to Plato.......2000-07-19

This collection of essays written by a host of outstanding scholars of ancient philosophy in this generation may well serve as a comprehensive and dense guideline to the philosophy of Plato and the contemporary viewpoints concerning the arguments presented by Plato. I am especially impressed by the excellent introduction written by the editor of this book, Richard Kraut. It is so well-organized, sharply presented and teemed with useful materials that I find it to be the best short introduction on Plato I ever read. And the structure of the whole book is also well balanced that the essays of which it is composed nearly touch every controverisal problems concerning Plato's philosophy and that those problems are all more or less treated in a appreciable way.

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This is it
CD-ROM Review: Warning! This product is not as advertised!
Plato: Complete Works - the best!!
You should buy this because...
BUY THIS ONE!!

Plato Complete Works
Plato
Manufacturer: Hackett Publishing Company
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Hardcover

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ASIN: 0872203492

Customer Reviews:

This is it.......2007-05-29

This is the edition I used in college. It is the most thorough reference on Plato that I think exists and helped me get through a number of courses. Plus for all who are interested in philosophy it is an excellent introduction without being intimidating. I highly recommend this version to all.

CD-ROM Review: Warning! This product is not as advertised!.......2007-02-25

[This review refers to the CD-ROM "version"]

I ordered this CD because Amazon has it listed as an alternate version of PLATO: COMPLETE WORKS, edited by John M. Cooper. Well, this is definitely false advertising. This CD merely contains the Benjamin Jowett translations. For those of you who don't know who Benjamin Jowett is, he was a very prominent British scholar who is largely said to be responsible for rendering Plato's works into an English classic. While his translations are certainly important historical documents, they suffer from the fact that they were produced in the middle of the 19th century. Yes, that's right: the 19th century. The translations in the Cooper edition, on the other hand, are all very accurate and up-to-date. I highly recommend the print edition of PLATO: COMPLETE WORKS (Ed. Cooper), but this CD bears no resemblance to it.

If you have ever casually surfed the internet looking for the works of Plato, you have probably had the "pleasure" of reading a Jowett translation. All of his translations can be found for free on the internet. In assembling this CD, someone merely copied these translations into a word file, converted it into a PDF, and shoved it on a CD. Trust me: you can do the work yourself and save yourself twenty bucks.

Plato: Complete Works - the best!!.......2007-01-16

Whether you're a student or even someone with a huge interest in Plato, this is THE complete edition for you. Why? Not only do we get all the dialogues of Plato which are generally agreed to have been penned by him, but we also get those dialogues which are in dispute - those dialogues which are an endless source of argument - did he or didn't he? But that's not all - there are also those works which are agreed were not written by Plato but are included because a bloke called Thrasyllus (who put together the first Complete Works some time in the First Century CE), believed they were. That's not the end of it...these translations are recent ones, not Victorian counterparts. Both Timaeus and Critias translations are an interesting variation to the Desmond Lee translation published by Penguin. Similarly, The Laws (a fluid translation by Trevor Saunders and published by Penguin) is offered in this edition. For the quality (as well as price), I doubt that there's anything that you'll believe comes even remotely close. An accomplishment!

You should buy this because..........2006-11-28

In terms of philosophy, Plato's works are important because western philosophy as we know it began with him. His dialogues are what defined almost all of the presently existing fields (from epistemology to aesthetics to ethics) and addressed the chief topics of philosophy. While his solutions to the problems offered by these questions are esoteric to the point of being spiritual rather than intellectual, the way he forms his arguments is so reasonable and logical one can't help but be swayed by them. Reading Plato may not grant the reader provable eternal truths but it certainly makes one hunger for them.

In terms of history, reading Plato's works will help one understand the psychology of many Greek philosophers (certain nobles & politicians as well) in the years during and after Plato as well as highlight traditions and processes among the intellectuals of Greek cultures (Athenian in particular) that existed at the time.

In terms of literature (drama) I don't know if there is any book more important to me than this one (well - maybe the Icelandic Sagas...). As an aspiring writer, I found Plato's way of expressing complex ideas extremely useful for when an author uses character dialog and verbal interaction to advance the plot. In and of itself these dialogues are extraordinary pieces of drama which irregardless of their philsophical and historical value is more than enough to guarantee their validity.

BUY THIS ONE!!.......2006-11-26

It is in fact CHEAPER than Princeton U's "Collected Dialogues" which does not contain the complete works. The translations are superb, with engaging style that is (from what I have read) faithful and accurate. Plato will absorb you and get you thinking. His was a voice like no other in history. Plato is also dangerous... he asks you to examine your life, develop your concept of justice, and labor for the best possible state. No wonder the Hungarian Communists banned his works in the 20th Century.

The book itself is very well bound and the typeface is quite easy on the eyes. The paper is a little on the thin side, so no felt-tip markups. Pencil is okay. Buy this, study it, enjoy it, and marvel at the fact that you can actually own something such as this- a testament to the brighter achievements of the modern world.

In fact, get this and The Complete Works of Aristotle, a Douay-Rhiems Bible, put them all together and you will literally own the fundament of Western Civilisation. Every home should have it.

Happy reading!

The Trial and Death of Socrates (3rd Edition)

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Expensive
In the name of Iran
The Trial and Death of Socrates
The Trial and Death of Socrates
A GEM

The Trial and Death of Socrates (3rd Edition)
Plato
Manufacturer: Hackett Pub Co Inc
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Binding: Paperback

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ASIN: 0872205541

Book Description

The third edition of The Trial and Death of Socrates presents G. M. A. Grube's distinguished translations, as revised by John Cooper for Plato, Complete Works. A number of new or expanded footnotes are also included along with a Select Bibliography.

Download Description

Includes Euthyphro, Apology, Crito, Phaedo. The speeches and teachings of Socrates at the time of his trial, and the doctrine of the immortality of the soul.

Customer Reviews:

Expensive.......2007-06-08

Of the eight books I bought, it was the most expensive (cost per page) for all that I received. Although it was in great condition, so were some of the others.

In the name of Iran.......2006-04-04

This book was pleseant to read because Socrates was accused of corrupting of young Greek people's mind. Socrates made mockery of his trial. Eventually, he was convicted and was order to drink poison to die.

The Trial and Death of Socrates.......2006-03-21

I was totally pleased with the entire process. The book arrived surprisingly quickly and was in perfect condition.

The Trial and Death of Socrates.......2006-03-09

This is a must for anyone who is interested in the writings of Plato and what little we know about Socrates. The footnotes provide excellent refrences to phrases, gods and place names that the average reader may not be familiar with.

A GEM.......2005-10-09

This is a gem of a book. Anybody who wishes to learn about people-management and human behaviour cannot afford to miss this 58 page booklet. The cover design and the booksize is mighty deceptive - this you will realize when you get to know the amount of wisdom that is treasured between the covers.

The Last Days of Socrates (Penguin Classics)

Average customer rating:

The Last Days of Socrates
let's not argue
W.J. Knapp is quite ignorant!
great book
The Masterpiece of Plato

The Last Days of Socrates (Penguin Classics)
Plato
Manufacturer: Penguin Classics
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Paperback

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ASIN: 0140449280
Release Date: 2003-04-29

Customer Reviews:

The Last Days of Socrates.......2007-06-16

In this simply-organized compilation of Socratic Dialogues, I would offer that the way Penguin Classics presents them cannot be outdone. The playfully loquacious dialogues are pure-gold bricks of logic, and should therefore be cherished greatly. This book is easy to understand because there are endnotes on every page. Spanning the entirety of over 200 juicy pages, Harold Tarrant and Hugh Tredennick present The Last Days of Socrates to the reader in an easy to follow pattern of notes. These final works of Plato should not be thought of as poor entertainment, but rather highly intense and compelling Greek discussions. It is very well-done and should be read over and over again.

Although every Socratic dialogue is absolutely riddled with complacent people for Socrates to question, this collection actually reveals the largest variety of listeners. From crazy commoners to cynical and court-goers, a critical criminal and the crowd of conflicting friends, Socrates caught every category and class of character off guard. At first, the evidence that hints at Socrates' trial is a mere conviction and nothing more. He had been free then. He had boldly questioned commoners at the very steps to the courthouse that he would defend himself in later. This penniless philosopher inquired of many people during his spare time.

In this collection, the second and third dialogues are the ones that depict the powerful defense of Socrates using logic to its full extent. In brilliantly defending himself, Socrates caressed, persuaded, and rallied only just under half of the jury. Unfortunately, he had failed to win the jury over completely, but he had come so close. Sleeping in the cell that was later constructed for him, Socrates was aroused by Crito, a man who had been a believer in Socrates. The extent of the discussion is contained in the third dialogue titled Crito. Anyhow, the general public hated Socrates so much that only death would avenge their flaming lust for revenge. The second and third dialogues depict Socrates' infamous apologetics and must be read. That is not all, however.

In Phaedo, Socrates calmly awaited his own death by hemlock, in a full chamber of the courthouse. He first addressed his followers and comrades alike concerning the meaning of life. He wanted to reassure them that there was indeed life after death, and that he would be going to a better place. Before he drank the poison, however, Socrates spurred a discussion of the soul and its immortality, or at least as logic had presented it to him. (Of course he had to argue it.) When two of his followers timidly provided Socrates with their opposing views, he only smiled and destroyed each argument consecutively. This he did because he wanted to share his hopes with his friends and did not want them to doubt his reincarnation. Nobody could fight back tears as he took the poison and perished. Socrates' legend now carries from there on. In Phaedo, the philosopher convinced his pals that his soul had not been dying, but had rather been transcending.

I love how Penguin has organized these significant conversations. Socrates is much easier to comprehend because of this book. Socrates had been last heard saying, "Crito, we ought to offer a cock to Asclepius. (This is because Asclepius had been the god of pleasure.) See to it and don't forget." Buy this book. See to it and do not forget. When I purchased this book, which was in a used condition, it only cost two cents and has not disappointed me. Since it is known that Socrates is always welcome to thinkers, the price feels reduced even further for those who love logic. You will deprive yourself if you miss out on this intellectual classic of the Father of Greek philosophy.

let's not argue.......2005-01-21

First, let me commend this book on it's ability to maintain relevance over the course of hundreds, even thousands of years. It is a necessity to any "rooty" student of philosophy.

Secondly, let me acknowledge that Socrates was a seemingly unhuman grace to the acomplishments of the human race. However, as he encouraged us to face rational facts as opposed to common beliefs, you must face the reality that in fact Socrates had sex with young boys, as was the norm for that era in Greek history. There are no questions. Most of the great minds did, though I am both a devotee to their teachings and wise to the ugliness of those actions.

If Aristotle killed a stranger would that make his work of lesser importance?

Let me stress that dignity in experiences (your 4 years of study) should not extend to close the mind but to expand it. We are reading passionate works of a man who shaped our world.

To argue irrationally on the topic of Socrates is to hit a man who disrespects Gandhi.

W.J. Knapp is quite ignorant!.......2004-12-02

Just like the other person who said that W.J. Knapp's review is, essentially, incredible and ridiculous, I, too, think that he knows nothing of Socrates. I have studied ancient philosophy for the last 4 years, specifically Socrates and Plato!, and this "Baptist Minister" is quite ignorant of Socrates and his ostensible love affairs with young men. There is NO evidence for any claim that says that Socrates slept with young men. He even resisted Alcibiades when Alcibiades wanted to sleep with him (read Alcibiades, by Plato)! He also died for a cause; he did not die for nothing! Besides Jesus, and possibly the apostle Paul, Socrates was the best man who had ever lived--and I am a devout Christian saying this! HE WAS A MARTYR! HE DID NOT BELIEVE WHAT THE GREEKS OF HIS TIME BELIEVED AS REGARDS GOD! In sum, do not pay heed to what W.J. Knapp says; he is obviously ignorant about the TRUTH! And you, W.J. Knapp, call yourself a Baptist! Besides bashing Knapp's comment, I would like to say that this book is great; an excellent read, and it stimulates one's mind, challenging one to consider things anew. It is also a wonderful story about the most influential philosopher who died for what he belived in: the TRUTH! I hope that each one of you finds this book as enjoyable as I do each time I read it! God Bless!

The following is a reply to Eric's recent comment (January 20, 2005)

It seems as if Eric does not know what he is talking about, for his logic is both fallacious and implausible. Just because many male Greeks in that era had sex with young boys, this does not necessarily prove that Socrates did. Not everyone in that era had sex with young boys; now did they, Eric?! His argument would not be right even if, say, 999,999 male Greeks out of 1,000,000 did have sex with young boys. If anyone was the exception, it would be Socrates. Moreover, as a philosophy professor (who is knowledgable specifically in the ancient philosophy period), I have studied this man quite in depth, and his character and daimon would certainly proscribe such immoral conduct. For, even if it was not deemed heinous or immoral in that era, that does not mean that Socrates deemed it moral. Lastly, perhaps you have not read many of the Platonic dialogues, but in one of them Socrates even had a chance to sleep with the finest young boy in Greece (Alcibiades); but he refused! Socrates did not have sex with young boys. There are no questions! Let us hope that this argument has eliminated any difficulties you, or anyone else for that matter, are struggling with. All in all, the book is wonderful, and I recommend it to anyone, even if he thinks Socrates did have sex with young boys!

great book.......2004-08-17

The only "sad case" is for the critic below, who while being an independant baptist minister, is so blinded by his prejudice as to ingore the universal truths in this book. The archetypal death of a martyr is described here in all its glory. Great Book!

The Masterpiece of Plato.......1998-05-07

I wondered that why there isn't any church putting Jacque Louis-David's painting the Death of Socrates on the wall. If you hear the story of Socrates' sarcrifice, you would understand why this old man is worth of the worship from millions. Imagine you are in the situation of Socrates. Assume that you are a patriotic citizen of a country. For all the years of your life, you try to make your fellow citizen smart and do them goods by spending all your time making speeches on the streets, defending justice and teaching the students without any charges. Assume that you have annoyed the ruling class of this country and they prosecute you on the court for corrupting the youths of your country-they could not prove that though. Assume your fellow citizen vote and put you to death on the court for you are too poor to pay a satisfactory fine and reject to proclaiming justice in exchange for your release. Assume that your best friend asks you to escape from jail since it is unjust for you to accept this unreasonable condemnation, and he guarantees that all the financial problems would be taken care of and your friends who help you escape would not be suffered, so that you can live in the countries that you prefer and raise your children by yourselves. Is anybody there would refuse to escape? However, Socrates does. He launches three arugements. 1. We should never injury others on any circumstances. Escape from jail and breaks the laws is certainly an act that would put the Laws of Athens on the blink of destruction. 2. You should respect your country's command as if you respect your parents. Since a person's birth, his country provides the protections, regulates the supply of food and enriches him with education. Thus, a person shouls respect his country like or more than he respects his parents. 3. There is a contract between the government and the people. If a person does not like the Laws of a country, he can choose to leave it. If he chooses to stay, that means he signs the contract with government of not ! breaking the laws. If he does not break the laws, the government can't do anything on him. If he does, the government reserves the rights to punish him or even execute him.

This book comprises the last part of Socrates' life: Euthyphro, the cause of his accusation, The Apology ,his cross-interrogation at the court, Crito, his refusal to escape from jail, and Phaedo, his Sarcrifice. There are the most important chapters in Plato. The weight of Socrates' sarcrifice is like the cruxifiction of Christ; if he does not die, he is not the Messiah. So, if you don't have too much time to read the Complete Works of Plato, this book undoubtedly would be the best choice for you to understand Plato.

Philosophic Classics: From Plato to Derrida (4th Edition)
Average customer rating:

Who thought philosophy would be fun??

Excellent Introduction to Philosophy Text

Philosophic Classics: From Plato to Derrida (4th Edition)
Forrest E. Baird , and Forrest Baird
Manufacturer: Prentice Hall
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Paperback

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Customer Reviews:

Who thought philosophy would be fun??.......2006-02-25

Great study of major philosophies that have impacted our western culture. Very enjoyable and easy reading, yet stimulating and intellectual...Loved the book!

Excellent Introduction to Philosophy Text.......2000-06-13

If you teach Introduction to Philosophy using a historical approach, this is the text I recommend. I used "The Philosophic Classics 2nd edition, From Plato to Nietzsche" for my classes and was looking for a text with the same basic works with some more contemporary materials. I find the updated 3rd edition, "From Plato to Derrida" the perfect solution. Instead of having to look through more textbooks for the right stuff, this is it.

Plato's Symposium: A Translation by Seth Benardete with Commentaries by Allan Bloom and Seth Benardete

Average customer rating:

Plato's Mystery of Desire
RE: best edition available
best edition available
If you think the classics are boring, think again
Excellent Edition of an Important Work

Plato's Symposium: A Translation by Seth Benardete with Commentaries by Allan Bloom and Seth Benardete
Plato
Manufacturer: University Of Chicago Press
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Paperback

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ASIN: 0226042758

Book Description

Plato, Allan Bloom wrote, is "the most erotic of philosophers," and his Symposium is one of the greatest works on the nature of love ever written. This new edition brings together the English translation of the renowned Plato scholar and translator, Seth Benardete, with two illuminating commentaries on it: Benardete's "On Plato's Symposium" and Allan Bloom's provocative essay, "The Ladder of Love." In the Symposium, Plato recounts a drinking party following an evening meal, where the guests include the poet Aristophanes, the drunken Alcibiades, and, of course, the wise Socrates. The revelers give their views on the timeless topics of love and desire, all the while addressing many of the major themes of Platonic philosophy: the relationship of philosophy and poetry, the good, and the beautiful.

Customer Reviews:

Plato's Mystery of Desire.......2005-04-15

Seth Benardete does a superb service to philosophers and lovers alike with his excellent translation of Plato's Symposium. This masterpiece of theatre and dialogue gives its readers the foundation for the question of desire and Benardete is precisely the kind of careful and precise translator who is capable of bringing out much of what lies hidden in the original Greek language. I recommend this translation for those who love literature as well as philosophy and those who wonder about their own desire.

The commentary by Bloom at the end of the text is informative and stimulating, if not always accurate.

RE: best edition available.......2004-02-09

I agree that Benardete's is the best translation of this dialogue you can buy. But it was already published way back in 1986 in _Dialogues of Plato_ edited by Erich Segal. As far as I can tell, the translation in the present edition is simply a reprint of the one already published.

best edition available.......2003-10-20

This is an elegant and accurate translation (much more readable than Benardete's gnomic renditions of Theaetetus / Sophist / Statesman). Benardete's essay is also a joy (it was previously published, but in a rather obscure German edition). Bloom's commentary is a bit of a slog and very rarely surprising. The reviewer below who remarked that "if you already have Love and Friendship and a copy of the Symposium you might feel gyped [sic]" has missed the mark; the prize here is the translation itself. Now if only Chicago had included Blanckenhagen's "Stage and Actor" as well!

If you think the classics are boring, think again.......2003-09-07

This is such a good work that any attempt to summarize it inevitably falls far short of summarizing what it really is, but here goes: The Symposium is on the surface an attempt to define love. Really it is far more, and deeper. Yet it is also incredibly bawdy and silly, reading like a novel of sorts.

It is far more interesting than the Republic and to my mind, more profound. Just read it; you don't even have to buy it, as every library should have a copy.

On top of that, such sites as Project Gutenberg and even SparkNotes are bound to have online copies, as this work's been in the "public domain" for a good two and a half millenia, give or take.

There now, you have no excuses. So what are you waiting for? Obviously if you are reading this review you are curious. Go satisfy that curiosity!

Excellent Edition of an Important Work.......2002-01-06

Plato's _Symposium_ is essential to understanding, insofar as that is possible, the allure and rewards of philosophy. Benardete's translation is accurate and readable, and his essay is helpful in following the action and bringing out some of the more important features of the dialogue. Bloom's "Ladder of Love" is reprinted within, and helps to situate the _Symposium_ within the broader question of philosophy and philosophy within our world.

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