Heraclitus
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- Interesting but there are alternatives
- man is the measure. . .
- The foundation of all Western thought......
- Inspirational for Certain Philosophers
- Heraclitus' thought comes to life
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The Art and Thought of Heraclitus: An Edition of the Fragments with Translation and Commentary
Heraclitus
Manufacturer: Cambridge University Press
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- Heraclitus Seminar (SPEP)
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- Fragments (Penguin Classics)
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ASIN: 052128645X |
Book Description
Behind the superficial obscurity of what fragments we have of Heraclitus’ thought, Professor Kahn claims that it is possible to detect a systematic view of human existence, a theory of language which sees ambiguity as a device for the expression of multiple meaning, and a vision of human life and death within the larger order of nature. The fragments are presented here in a readable order; translation and commentary aim to make accessible the power and originality of a systematic thinker and the first great master of artistic prose. The commentary locates Heraclitus within the tradition of early Greek thought, but stresses the importance of his ideas for contemporary theories of language, literature and philosophy.
Customer Reviews:
Interesting but there are alternatives.......2007-03-01
Rather than Charles H. Kahn's 'The Art and Thought of Heraclitus: An Edition of the Fragments with Translation and Commentary' (ISBN: 052128645X), I would suggest that those who are interested in acquiring an edition of Heraclitus which gives them the Greek text with translation and commentary look for a copy of Philip Wheelwright's possibly more interesting 'Heraclitus' (ISBN 0199240221).
I would also suggest that the more scholarly inclined turn to Thomas McEvilley's 'The Shape of Ancient Thought: Comparative Studies in Greek and Indian Philosophies' (ISBN 1581152035) where, in Chapter Two, 'The Problem of the One and the Many,' they will find a fascinating treatment of Heraclitus which goes far beyond anything Kahn has to offer. On page 149 of this same book they will find a valuable footnote (92) which will provide them with a good idea of the quality (or lack of it) of Kahn's 'scholarship.'
As for the general reader who simply wants to read an English translation of Heraclitus, their needs will perhaps be better served by a book such as Guy Davenport's '7 Greeks' (ISBN: 0811212882) which gives an excellent translation of the complete fragments.
Davenport's translations really are superb and the 124 fragments he gives us, which are tragically all that remain of Heraclitus, take up a mere 12 pages of his book. As a bonus, the remainder of '7 Greeks' is devoted to equally fine translations of Archilocus, Sappho, Alkman, Anacreon, Diogenes, and Herondas.
Davenport's Heraclitus is pithy, pungent, and very much to the point:
16. "Awake, we see a dying world; asleep, dreams."
82. "Defend the law as you would a city wall."
97. "Life is bitter and final, yet men cherish it and beget children to suffer the same fate."
107. "Having cut, burned, and poisoned the sick, the doctor then submits his bill."
Another of Davenport's 7 Greeks, Diogenes, was for me a wonderful find and I'm still chuckling over this one:
Diogenes 109. "I've seen Plato's cups and table, but not his cupness and tableness."
The affluent student who simply must own every edition of Heraclitus should by all means acquire Kahn (and also McEvilley who translates and comments on many of the fragments). Others may find Davenport's translations adequate to their needs, somewhat more memorable than Kahn's, and his book better value for money.
man is the measure. . ........2005-11-26
This text is not for the beginning student in philosophy or philology. As someone interested in the history of philosophy, works like this compilation/commentary by Kahn are always valuable. The aim of this text is to provide a method for organizing the fragments of Heraclitus' philosophy in a manner that differs from the original Diels-Kranz method. Kahn's translations are markedly different from the now standard translations of Kirk and Raven; the differences are intertwined with the method of organizing the order of the fragments. In assessing any particular fragment in this work, one should always consult the Kirk-Raven text on the Presocratic Philosophers, have at least a passing knowledge of Greek, have read some Heidegger, and know a good bit about the controversy surrounding the arranging of the fragments. The arrangement of Heraclitus' fragments is a project that is just as perilous as attempting to ascertain the order in which Plato wrote his dialogues. I don't particularly find this sort of lexicography to be very fruitful in terms of having definitive answers, but Kahn's arrangement here is very good at placing itself within the context of what has come before in the way of scholarship. Referring back to any particular fragment in Diels-Kranz or Kirk and Raven is easy because Kahn cross-references each of his numbered translations with their numbering systems. It is hard to challenge the authority of this work, but it is by no means the final word on Heraclitus.
The foundation of all Western thought.............2001-01-28
Devoid of all "Slave Morality" influences from Semitic thinking, Heraclitus is pure European thought at its finest. It's usually proclaimed, that all Western philosophies are but a footnote to Plato. I disagree. Even Plato is subjected to Heraclitus. These fragments shine through, and Charles Kahn does an excellent job of giving his opinions about each fragment without forcing them down your throat and proclaiming his opinions as 100% the ONLY way they can be understood (but, in my opinion, he makes a good case for this reasons). After reading these 123 fragments, you'll see that philosophers such as Plato through Hitler among others owe much of their thinking to this one man. An Excellent Read.
Inspirational for Certain Philosophers.......2000-07-18
One of the things that is most interesting to me about this book is the way it illustrates how we can know so much about someone whose main book is not available to us. By writing about nature in a way that emphasized the power of fire, war, and strife, Heraclitus produced a book that was so well known to ancient writers that many of them lifted ideas for their own purposes. This combination of the knowledge that we have from many sources produces a picture of the permutations that basic philosophy is prone to fall prey to in a history which never finds any particular idea useful for long. I find the application of such ideas most interesting in the field of deep politics, where the idea of "killing the killers," mentioned in connection with the riddle which Homer couldn't guess at the time of his death according to the tradition explained in this book, could be related to some modern despicabilities.
Heraclitus' thought comes to life.......1999-11-23
The dense language and riddling nature of Heracitus' prose has baffled many of us for the past 2500 years. The approach here taken to Heraclitus' fragments is fascinating. The author points out that only by putting the fragments in context with the way the greeks of the fifth century BC reasoned, Heraclitus' thought may come to life to the modern reader.
Unlike today's "rational" thought, the greeks of the fifth century BC were not yet enslaved to deductive thinking and causality, but were quite aware of the self-referent nature of things, of the unending web of interelations that makes up Nature and the Universe.
Science exclusively endowed with causality and deduction is very good at finding the hows, but terribly clumsy at finding the whys. This book is definitely recommended to all science people interested not only in learning the hows, but also in understanding the whys.
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- Heraclitus, Fragments
- Poets Make the Best Translators
- Possibly an "E" for "effort"..... maybe
- O.K. but could have been better
- Beautiful Translation
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Fragments: The Collected Wisdom of Heraclitus
James Hillman
Manufacturer: Viking Adult
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Binding: Hardcover
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ASIN: 0670891959
Release Date: 2001-02-01 |
Customer Reviews:
Heraclitus, Fragments.......2003-05-10
These fragments don't always fit together, but because of the unusual nature of a collection like this it is more than tolerable. The fragments are in Greek or Latin on the left side of the page with a translation on the right. The translations are vivid, almost poetic, although some of the terms that are explained in the introduction can throw off the flow of the words. Heraclitus is insightful, intriguing, and startlingly contemporary. The price may be a bit high, but is worth it for those who seek wisdom.
Poets Make the Best Translators.......2002-02-25
I know enough Greek to question the faithfulness of most of these poetic transliterations of the original. But that is beside the point. If you want a literal translation pick up a Harvard LCL edition and scan the dry as dust academic parallel rendering. I sometimes wonder if poets don't make the best translators. Here is a text vivid and gripping and sounding in modern ears with a booming resonance.
Additional thoughts:
1. This a beautifully produced edition with the Greek on the left and Haxton's fine poetry on the right. As usual, I skipped the foreward and notes preferring to commune directly with the Master rather than through the medium of a posturing chorus of academic factotums.
2. The information age was supposed to witness the twilight of the great age of printing. How wrong. It is a miracle that in this age Viking is publishing a side by side Greek and English version of a book two and half millennia old! Perhaps the great age of the Printed Book is only now dawning.
Possibly an "E" for "effort"..... maybe.......2001-10-27
As another reviewer said, (and i was thinking the same thing before i read their review), it seems geared toward upper middle class, bored housewives with little or no previous interest in ancient Greek philosophy. To still use the word "God" (capitalized) in a Heraclitus fragment is so blatant that it would surprise me if anyone who knows anything about the pre-socratics, and who has thought about their ideas would bother with such a book. No doubt that is what Mr. Haxton was wagering on before putting the original Greek next to the English translations.
I'm not degrading this merely because it is a coffee table book, i'm attacking it because it is in bad taste and adds absolutely no fresh perspective to Heraclitus' fragments or his life. I suggest looking at, instead, Luciano DeCrescenzo's "The History of Greek Philosophy Volume I: The Pre-Socratics" for a lively and interesting read (including biographical details).
"The Collected Wisdom..." is a hard cover as well, which makes not a lot of sense (other than the nice presentation) considering the length of the book. You could happily buy a book with all the fragments for nearly the same price or cheaper. No doubt the reason why Amazon knocked $6 off the original price was because there were too many unopened boxes collecting dust. Let the bookworms eat these ones.
The last thing we need is for the words of a man like Heraclitus to end up on bad robot-rock album covers or as band names (the same fate that Nietzsche now, regretfully, seems to be suffering from). It would seem that Roger Von Oech has decided to try his hand at the craps table as well with "Expect the Unexpected (Or You Won't Find It): A Creativity Tool Based on the Ancient Wisdom of Heraclitus". Are people really so dumb that they need these pre-digested, refined, books full of preservatives to inspire them? I am all for more simplified introductions, but if that means pandering and studying current trends, then what you'll always get is an ugly bastardization. The whole point of philosophy is to make people think!!
And yes, i realize that basically every translator of any kind of philosophy (regardless of time or place) uses "God" as a substitute for the original thinker's conception and belief system. I would call it Christian revisionism ... though it may also be because most translators cannot give their readers the benefit of the doubt and compromise their writings by pandering or making the work more digestible. Or simply because so few can translate from a more neutral standpoint or stand outside their religion for the sake of the writing.
a.n.
p.s. If anyone knows of any good translations of pre-Christian/non-Christian European philosophy which does not suffer from the aforementioned peccadillos, i would be interested to find out more about them
O.K. but could have been better.......2001-08-05
If you're looking to brush up on some of the roots of philosophy, this is a good book to read. This book is very short, hence why it is called Fragments. I read it in its entirety in an hour. I liked the fact that the author included the Greek translation along with the translation. However, the commentary is weak to be kind. There could have been much more regarding the influence of this work on the following Greek philosophers, or a look at parallel systems developing in the same time period. I recommend waiting for the paperback if one is ever published.
Beautiful Translation.......2001-06-28
This is a marvellous translation of Heraclitus' fragments into verse which captures the fiery quality of Heraclitus' original voice. With the Greek text opposite the translation, those with knowledge of Greek have the added pleasure of comparing the English with the original.
I would have given the book five stars if only the foreword had not been written by a pop psychologist. This fellow, obviously a Jungian analyst, manages to write the most meaningless, fallacious, and ridiculous short essay I've ever read on any topic. While American psychoanalysts are obviously eager to vulgarize their own schools of thought into irrelevance, it's sad to see Heraclitus given this kind of treatment. One can only hope that this kind of thing will not be repeated, since the idea of one day finding myself reading John Bradshaw's thoughts on Parmenides or Dr. Laura's ruminations on Anaximander scares me. A lot.
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Heraclitus: Homeric Problems (Writings from the Greco-Roman World) (Writings from the Greco-Roman World)
David Konstan , Heraclitus , and D. A. Russell
Manufacturer: Society of Biblical Literature
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ASIN: 1589831225 |
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This is the first English translation of the only extended ancient treatise on Homer that survives today. It provides a detailed allegorical discussion of controversial passages in the Iliad and the Odyssey and is a mine of information on ancient approaches to allegory and to literary criticism.
Average customer rating:
- Good for Greek, Despicable Translation
- Heraclitus and Fragments
- At Least it Has The Greek
- Not a translation, but renderings into 20th century New Age talk
- heraclitus fragments -- GREAT!!
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Fragments (Penguin Classics)
Heraclitus
Manufacturer: Penguin Classics
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ASIN: 0142437654
Release Date: 2003-10-28 |
Book Description
In the sixth century b.c.-twenty-five hundred years before Einstein-Heraclitus of Ephesus declared that energy is the essence of matter, that everything becomes energy in flux, in relativity. His great book, On Nature, the world's first coherent philosophical treatise and touchstone for Plato, Aristotle, and Marcus Aurelius, has long been lost to history-but its surviving fragments have for thousands of years tantalized our greatest thinkers, from Montaigne to Nietzsche, Heidegger to Jung. Now, acclaimed poet Brooks Haxton presents a powerful free-verse translation of all 130 surviving fragments of the teachings of Heraclitus, with the ancient Greek originals beautifully reproduced en face.
Customer Reviews:
Good for Greek, Despicable Translation.......2007-03-12
As a recent graduate of a Classics program and enthusiast of pre-Socratic philosophy, I was thrilled to see an edition of Heraclitus' fragments available with the original Greek text opposite an English translation (particularly because the Greek text of the Fragments is so hard to come by). To readers of Greek, the English translation will look poor if not atrocious and absurd. It aims to capture the 'sense' of the Greek while consistently avoiding more literal renderings. Sometimes a 'loose translation' is enjoyable, if not preferable - but here the supposedly 'poetic' translation is SO outrageous that I feel it does a grave injustice to Heraclitus' philosophy. There are two reasons to buy this book: 1) you are a student of Greek who can read the Greek text and appreciate it while ignoring the English translations on the right-facing pages, or 2) you want to read the English translations to get a taste of Heraclitus but feel inspired to learn the Greek by having its presence on the left-facing pages. No one should buy this book hoping to get an authoritative translation of Heraclitus.
Heraclitus and Fragments.......2006-07-28
This compilation of words by ancient Greek philosopher, Heraclitus, is known as "Fragments" because there are no actual works by Heraclitus in existence today. There are only examples from antiquity where others quoted his long-lost works. This book is, therefore, a compilation of bits and pieces of Heraclitus' unique brand of philosophy. His thought reflects strains of ideas that the West did not hear of again until investigating the Buddha of the East. Heraclitus represents a kind of missing link of philosophy in a certain way, drawing our attention to a time in history when much different fundamental ideas could have shaped our minds to come for the next millenia. As an added benefit, each quote is shown with its representation in Greek as well as its translation in English. The author also supplies the reader with some background information to clarify and understand obscurities in his text that may not be so readily obvious. I found this to be an enjoyable book...
At Least it Has The Greek.......2006-05-12
If you know Greek, and don't care about using it as a reference work, this is a good, inexensive edition. It contains the fragments in Greek.
On the pages opposite the Greek, though, is not a translation. Instead, it is an adaptation into English. This adaptation is occasionally inspired, often mediocre, and almost never what Heraclitus said.
Not a translation, but renderings into 20th century New Age talk.......2005-09-07
Heraclitus' FRAGMENTS come here in the original with a facing-page translation by Brooks Haxton that tries to do to the pre-Socratic philosopher what no earlier translator has done, make him a New-Ageish wisdom poet in tune with our modern needs. It is a disastrous experiment, and I cannot recommend it either to students of Greek or readers interested in the pre-Socratics.
The problems here are legion. For one, Haxton doesn't use Diels' numbering scheme, favouring Bywater's dinosaur-era numbers, which means this work is out of touch with most collections of Heraclitus. The Greek typeface used is very idiosyncratic and not conformant to classical norms. But the translation itself is horrid.
A lot of what the reader is getting here simply isn't Heraclitus. Instead of providing a footnote with his opinion on what the fragment may mean in context, as reputable scholars would do, Haxton simply adds content to the translation. Unless he were to look at the translation notes in the back, the average reader would be unaware that much of what he was reading wasn't actual said by the philsopher, but is just one modern translator's opinion. Take, for example, Haxton's rendition of the fragment "Nyktipoloi, magoi, bakchoi, lenai, mustai", which is literally translated "Night-walkers, mages, bacchants, lenai, and the initiated", but which Haxton inexplicably expands to "Nightwalker [sic], magus, and their entourage, bacchants and mystics of the wine press, with stained faces, and damp wits". One that really takes the cake is 89: "Ex homine in tricennio potest avus haberi," which simply means "A man could be a grandfather in thirty years." Haxton somehow comes up with "Look: the baby born under the new moon under the old moon holds her grandchild in her arms".
This translation is a crime. If you are interested in Heraclitus' thought, try getting a reputable scholarly translation. Dennis Sweet's HERACLITUS: Translation and Analysis (University Press of America, 1995) is quite easily readable and entertaining. Stay far away from Haxton's kookish work.
heraclitus fragments -- GREAT!!.......2005-08-02
The original is one of 'Man's' (male and female) true spiritual and philosophical mssterpieces. I found this translation both sensitive and thoughtful.
morton tolson
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HERACLITUS
Heraclitus
Manufacturer: NY
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Paperback
ASIN: B000N6OF02 |
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Heracliti Quastiones Homericae
Heraclitus
Manufacturer: B G TEUBNER LEIPZIG BERLIN
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Hardcover
ASIN: B000PL689Q |
Authors:
- Herbert, Edward
- Herbert, Frank
- Herbert, George
- Herbert, Mary
- Herbert, Zbigniew
- Herdman, John
- Miguel Hernández
- Hernández, Miguel
- Herodotus
- Herrick, Robert
Authors
Authors